Using CBD oil to alleviate eczema – The Eczema Podcast (S3E8)

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Abby: Hi everyone. Welcome to the Eczema podcast. Today I have another episode for you and it’s all about how to choose a good CBD for eczema and I know that this is a really hot topic right now. There is a lot of buzz around it and tons of CBD products are coming out on the market at a very fast pace, so I thought that today I would bring my guests to address it. My guest is actually a holistic dermatologist and she is actually one of the first holistic dermatologists that started in the US. She helped to pioneer the integrative dermatology movement, which I find is amazing. I am just so thankful for her because she’s even written a 400 page book about skin care and dermatology. She also wrote the first three chapters to Dr. Andy Weil’s textbook. In case you haven’t heard of him, he’s also a very well known doctor, and I just love that Dr. Jacknin is spreading the message about integrative dermatology.

Dr. Jeanette Jacknin is also an expert on a conventional and natural skincare therapies. She had her own skincare line and I know she consults with other skincare companies and helps them as well. She was also asked to join the elite complimentary and alternative medicine task force of the American Academy of dermatology in 2013 and I am just so excited to have her today. She has also published articles in other publications such as the Dermatology Times, Plastic Surgery Times, OrganicSpa Magazine, Natural Insider, Dr. Oz, Good Life Magazine and Fortune.com she also has contributed to the national product insider regarding CBD and she spoke at the cannabis world conference as well back in 2016 so she is definitely well-versed in CBD and I look forward to having her share her knowledge with you and I just want to thank you again for listening to this podcast.Be sure to leave an iTunes review if you enjoy listening to this.

And I also just want to remind you that this podcast is sponsored by my Conqueror Dry Skin Soothing Balm and my Conqueror Soothing Bath Treatment, both of which I used during my hardest times and my flare ups. And it really just helped to moisturize my skin and it’s all natural ingredients and you can find it at my store. You can also get 10% off by typing podcast10 to get 10% off.

Abby: Welcome Jeanette, to the show. Thank you very much for having me. I really appreciate it. And I know that you recently spoke at the integrative dermatology symposium and at another conference as well, so you’re busy speaking. I would just love to know more about your story, how you got into practicing dermatology and integrative dermatology as well.

Dr. Jeanette: Well, I trained back Eastern Virginia, which is conservative and I loved internal medicine and solving those problems. But I got into dermatology because I noticed the dermatologist was a lot happier than the intern and also because I have a visual memory. It went along well with seeing skin lesions. So that was really fun for me. And I originally had a traditional practice in Florida, but I came West to Arizona and to California. I got into integrative dermatology very early. I was really probably the first one, or one of the first ones in. I had some health issues myself. So I started looking into all these holistic treatments, herbalism, homeopathy, acupuncture, mind, body medicine, and I decided then there’s no book on those treatments as concerns dermatology.

So I decided to write the book and I, what’s very lucky, Penguin published it. It ends up being about 400 pages on 33 different diseases and I took them from a traditional treatment like you would get in a traditional dermatologist and then the different treatments at the time that homeopathy or herbals are all that could offer.

And from there I was asked to write an article for another magazine. Back then it was a magazine and not an online site. And then they asked me to speak at their conference, which is a national conference. Everything went really well. And what I would do for about the last eight years is I would go to Whole Foods and see what the products were in the foods, the new naturals, the new herbs that they were promoting or that were popular.

And I would go back and look in the pub mag and see if there was any literature about it in dermatology around the world. And then I would just make up my talks. And it was all brand new material about these different herbals from around the world that could be used in skincare because there were studies internationally showing they either help for acne or dry skin or anti-aging or things like that.

So after the first talk I decided, well, I’m going to go ahead and apply to many different conferences. So I ended up speaking to about 50 conferences internationally in the U S and Canada on different herbals every year. And you know, it was quoted by different magazines and articles. And then I decided I wanted a new challenge. So I went around to about five dermatology departments at grand rounds and introduced to them integrative dermatology or supplements that were good for skincare. And then my next assign challenge was to get into CBD because I had a friend who bought a CBD cream for pain from my ankle that was hurting.

And I was shocked to find that it was more effective for pain. So then this was like three or four years ago and no one was really into CBD, just a handful of people.

And I was shocked out of my mind when I went and looked on pub med and saw that there were all these studies about CBD and skincare and all these other things because it had been outlawed in the USA, but yet other countries were far ahead. So the last three years I’ve been giving talks around the country on, at national conventions, on the science behind CBD, in skincare, in terms of acne, psoriasis, eczema, panty aging and other things.

And I recently became brand ambassador for Medterra. Great quality line. It’s available in CVS and other many other places. So it kind of just evolved naturally. And I, I love going to the conferences, learning new information, speaking and meeting new people.

Abby: That’s so great. And I know you mentioned that you’re one of the first integrative dermatologist and I think that’s just so amazing that you know you were one of the pioneers and are there actually many integrative dermatologists out there right now or is it still barely knew.

Dr. Jeanette: It’s fairly new, but there were a 400 people, dermatologist and natural paths at this conference, which was the second one they held. So I think the young, and they were mostly like in their thirties the dermatologist and naturopath. So I think the young people are picking up and then the leaders in the field have caught on because that’s why they are leaders. So they’ve been asked to talk. Several of the leaders talk there. There’s actually been an integrative dermatology subgroup at the American Academy of dermatology for at least 20 years, but it’s had three different groups of people as a gets disbanded than the young people try again and then gets skipped span and they try it again. But I think it is more accepted because I was the first one to give a talk at the American Academy of dermatology on topical CBD in skincare. I was shocked out of my mind that they let me talk there in 2018 because it’s a traditional organization.

So I think there’s a lot of interest because the patients are coming to the doctors and saying, I’m trying CBD or CBD with THC topically and it’s really helped this, this, this and this. And so the doctors are want to learn about it.

And this year it really exploded with a lot of places where you can learn about cannabis, not only CBD, but cannabis and skincare on another medical aspects. And they’re medically based on the studies instead of just anecdotal. There are many anecdotes on the internet, but as scientists we always like to see double blind studies or in the past we did.

Sometimes it’s not possible. So if a patient says it works, it’s pretty good to believe them. That’s so great. I would love to learn more about CBD and the science behind it and, and why it actually helps.

Abby: Wonderful, if you could share more about the science behind it and how it actually helps the skin, I would love to learn more.

Dr. Jeanette: Well, CBD is one of 130 cannabinoids that’s found in him and marijuana and one of its big roles in regulating inflammation. And as we know, eczema is an inflammatory disease. Now why it works on the skin. The skin has its own endocannabinoid system, which has CB 1 and CB 2 receptors and probably more that we don’t know yet, but the CB1 can add up. Cannabis receptors are in layers of the care attentive sites. You’re in the sebaceous glands, they’re in the hair follicles, they’re in the nerve fibers innovating the hair follicles. They’re in the immune cells in the dermis, so they’re out throughout the entire skin. And so this is ideal place to see that. Now there have been three or four different studies on eczema that showed different mechanisms of action and these were double blind studies done independently, not associated with companies.

They were all overseas because until last year it was very difficult to do. Or this year really is very difficult to do any research, meaningful research on CBD or cannabis in this country. In the past it’s been found that actually hemp seed oil itself can help eczema topically and orally. But CBD is stronger. And in 2001, Gaful showed that cannabinoid one receptors in mouse skin cells lessened induced atopic dermatitis. The mouse cells, which didn’t have the cannabis one receptors secreted increase levels of a mediator that drives the skin inflammation in atopic dermatitis.

So having those cannabis one receptors and having them works on the receptors that decreases the skin inflammation in atopic dermatitis. And in Kim in 2015, they actually used humans instead of mice. And he found that a topical cannabinoid receptor one agonist, something similar to an [inaudible], which our body makes or CBD lessened the skins, both acute and chronic anti-inflammatory responses in an atopic dermatitis model.

And he looked under the microscope and found that this confirmed the anti-inflammatory effect. Nam and another country, 2016 found that CBE one agents such as an [inaudible], which we all make in our own body, may be used for relieving inflammatory symptoms mediated by mass cell activation, which is an immune cell in skin challenges such as eczema.

So what really, we’ve had several studies and they showed different mechanisms of action on how cannabinoids can help. There’s also been quite a few studies with [inaudible] or methyl ethanolamine, which you can actually get over the counter and Amazon and it acts on the receptors like a CB1. Or excuse me, CB two receptor and [inaudible]. There have been several studies done just on this. Let’s see, there was Everlane in 2008 Kirk in 2010 and Carbone and Sui in 2010, and they all showed that a lesson symptoms and the inflammation in atopic dermatitis decrease the severity of itch and they showed that it worked by different mechanisms, different in inflammatory mechanisms.

And there was another study, Gaful study worked on the lessening the the type allergic inflammatory responses.

Abby: Do you usually find it more effective if someone takes it internally versus putting it on topically?

Dr. Jeanette: Well, I did not stop to look at the studies for internal, so I just looked at the studies and right now we can’t really make claims about anything according to the FDA. But I can just pull the studies and none of the studies did take it orally. So anecdotally, it’s important to know that CBD works on some people and not on others.

So some people can take CBD and they report decreased in anxiety, decreased in eczema symptoms, decreased and pain, and other people it has no effect on. So it’s very individual and the dosing is very individual. We have not yet come up with individuals dosing because everybody’s so different and the field is so new, but I did not see any studies on taking oral CBD.

Abby: That is actually very interesting how you mentioned that it works for some people, but, but not everyone. I guess it’s almost like how even supplements or drugs can on people and not everyone, it’s just really the same as any other supplement or drug or herbal or even acupuncture works for some people or homeopathy or herbal.

Dr. Jeanette: Some people do very well with it and some people don’t. It’s just we’re all different genetically and epigenetically.

 

Abby: Yeah, I agree with that. In regards to CBD, can you also let our viewers know more about the type of CBD? So I think the type you’re referring to is the one without THC, right?

 

Dr. Jeanette: Yes. But CBD can come from him or marijuana or hemp. That’s the difference. The legal one is 99% CBD, and less than 1% THC, so that’s okay by the DEA. Marijuana has greater than 0.3% THC, and hemp has CBD less than 0.3% THC. Now, they were originally the same plant, cannabis sativa, but over centuries the hemp was grown and cultivated. I mean, this is nothing new. It’s since at the time of China they were cultivated, helpless, grown for fiber to make wood to make clothing [inaudible] ropes and so it was cultivated for those qualities. And then the marijuana was cultivated for the mystical, spiritual, religious and mine flowing properties of the THC.

 

So that’s how they kind of branched out nowadays in the last year since the hemp farm bill passed in December of 2018, then everyone in it and their brothers growing hemp and trying to get high strains of CBD in the hemp because that’s what’s legal. Two sell CBD from the hemp. But you do have to be very careful because the hemp from industrial hemp, which is grown now in Kentucky, Oregon, wherever is actually comes from the processing of the fibers and it’s not actually from the oil, from the seeds.

So you have to be very careful because if you buy something that says cannabis sativa oil, it means that it doesn’t happen unless it’s got CBD added. It has have hardly any CBD, so you have to be careful with that. Whereas the CBD from the marijuana plant does come from the flower and the CBD from the hemp plant comes from the processing of the flowers.

Abby: That’s actually very interesting. So just to trace back a second just so our viewers have some background, but if the THC is above your 0.3% that classifies it more as a drug, right? And medical marijuana.

Dr. Jeanette: Yes. And so it has either medical marijuana or recreational marijuana or depending on the state you’re in. Some States allow you to have medical marijuana for certain indications only such as pain, seizures, anxiety, and you have to go to a medical marijuana doctor and get a license.

Some States allow recreational, like California where you can buy it. You don’t have to have a medical reason to go to the medical marijuana store and buy marijuana for recreational purposes. And then some states haven’t come, aren’t yet medically approved for marijuana. Every state has been doing it differently. Federally, you’re allowed to grow.

Abby: Interesting. So I know that our viewers should be looking for a hemp that is below 0.3% so that it is a legal amount to actually be able to use even topically on her skin. Right. and I guess one thing I’m wondering is how do we actually choose a, how do we choose a source that’s good, that doesn’t have mold that’s organic, or are there a lot that have mold toxins on them?

Dr. Jeanette: There are unfortunately, because it’s unregulated a lot of the packaging, it has nothing to do with inside the package.

Abby: And what do you look for how to pick a CBD product in particular?

Dr. Jeanette: You look for how many CBD milligrams around the packaging. I should say 250 milligrams, you know, in two ounces or four ounces or 750 milligrams. And you look at the back and it lists the ingredient profile. The top of the list is where they have the highest percentage of the ingredient. And at the bottom of it list is where there are trace amounts of the ingredient. So if you find CBD yet near the top of the list, that means there is a lot of CBD in there long as the packaging is reflected in the product.

And then if it’s at the very bottom, they’re just putting it in there for marketing because it’s, it’s hardly any trace amounts in it. The other thing you would want to look for is a certificate of analysis. That shows that it has been third party tested, independently tested. Be sure that everything is in there. That [inaudible] phase is in there and there are other things to look for whether it’s organically grown.

Some are organically grown, some are grown in one field so that if you use multiple fields, you don’t know if maybe some marijuana seeds came over from the field next door or something like that. Also I personally like to go to this site, www naturalpartners.com.

It’s a great source for medical doctors and naturopathic buy their products and they do a lot of due diligence and I really think they only have products on there that are good. I’m not sure that an individual can buy that, but some of them you can buy over the counter like Medterra, you can buy over the counter at CVS or if they sell it naturalpartners.com, so you know there are quality product. Plus, looking at the certificate of analysis and then there’s about only 11 companies that are part of the Hemp Association and have been guaranteed that their hemp fields are pure.

And again, Medterra is one of those, but there are many good lines and Medterra isn’t the only one. And as I say, looking at naturalpartners.com is really helpful.

Abby: I’ve started asking for a certificate of analysis from companies now just to make sure that what they see is in there is actually in there. There’s been times that a list that there’s yeast and molds and then, I’ve gone back to a company to ask them the amount and what it actually means when they listed out, but I emailed them twice and they never got back to me. And also I know some companies won’t give it to you if you asked .But that’s usually a bad sign that maybe they’re hiding something are not as transparent. Which isn’t so great. But I’m wondering out of all the CBD’s that exist out there, because there’s a lot, what percentage would you say is actually good quality? For example, like 10% 20% of the CBD on the market?

Dr. Jeanette: That would be really hard to say because like three years ago there were only like 10 topical lines and then everybody meld the money and at least about a hundred or a thousand lines have come in now. So I don’t know every line. I just know the good ones that would have been around for awhile or at least in the last two years [inaudible] in this world. So I really can’t guess how many, a lot of them though are actually what they do is they put their name on it but it’s a private label, so somebody else came up with the formula and actually a lot of them are probably selling same formula just with a different name. But private label means some lab came up with it, but you can put your name on it. So I would say a large percentage of the new ones just did that. They didn’t have time to find a hemp field get the chain supply to get all this stuff done. They just bought some ready made formula and put their name on, opened up a web site and started trying to sell it to the next guy.

Abby: That’s actually really interesting. And now you mentioned that everything is growing so fast and we actually can regulate how the quality is and whether things are actually good or not. So yeah, that’s very interesting. Also, I’m wondering, in terms of topical or internal, is there like a minimum dose you’ve seen that people should be using at least to see a difference?

Dr. Jeanette: That’s a really difficult question too because everybody is different. But generally the practitioners, they to start at a lower dose and go up because it’s very expensive and titrate up to the dose that works for you for whatever indication it is. So say you started 250 milligrams of CBD and a two amps product, it’s not doing that much for your, whatever your skin problem is and try to seven 50 which is of course can be more expensive, but you just start little lower and then go up because of the cost.

Abby: And, and have you ever seen any of your, or have you ever seen anyone who has had negative side effects from CBD?

Dr. Jeanette: I really haven’t. And in all the studies that I reviewed, they didn’t have any contact allergy. Like you know, a lot of people can be sensitive to topical products, even steroids. So people are allergic to some of the products and that the steroids are put in. But, of course there weren’t a lot of people in each of these studies. And I personally haven’t had anybody anecdotally tell me that they reacted to CBD.

Abby: That’s actually really interesting. I would think that even with creams, I’ve heard of people having negative reactions. So that’s great that CBD is safe to use.

Dr. Jeanette: Well I can’t say 100% in everybody because it’s been a very small sampling and the studies have been done in, so I’m never gonna say 100% but in all the studies I read that w it was 100% right.

Abby: And I’ve also been approached by a lot of companies who have told me that CBD is safe for pregnant women breastfeeding and also babies and kids wanted to know your thoughts on that as well.

Dr. Jeanette: Well, I think I need to study that further because I’m not convinced of it yet. I have to look at the literature, which I haven’t done for that. And before I make a claim, I need to see the studies.

Abby: I think that’s a great idea too, because even in terms of pregnancy, I know CBD is still really early and I’m not sure if there are studies that have been done on it. But my naturopath mentioned that even with things like homeopathic medicine, people have mentioned it’s safe during pregnancy, but she mentioned that during the first trimester when the baby’s growing, we just don’t have enough studies to prove that it is safe. So we just don’t know what can happen with things like that.

Dr. Jeanette: Well, I would agree. I mean, and also homeopathy can have side effects. I took it once and I got deep bone pain, like deep bone pain from cancer. So it’s not, all of these things are not, just because they come from natural plants doesn’t mean you can’t have side effects.

Abby: Yes. I would love to know what your what are your thoughts are on it. For the brand that you recommend, what makes them different from other brands on the market?

Dr. Jeanette: Well, there are other good brands. I’m not saying there aren’t, but they’re, they’re tested multiple times during the process, so it’s not tested just one time. And they also have their own Hemp fields – dedicated Hemp fields to ensure single source. And they are doing research on their products by a university professor to confirm the effectiveness of the product. Also, it’s over 95% naturally sourced and at least half the ingredients are organic. So they also have a certificate of analysis. They’re one of the few companies [inaudible] are in this hemp category of great [inaudible] companies. Like I say, there’s like 11, they put the milligrams of CBD on the packaging. They have to take a certificate of analysis there. Now with new natural partners. And mostly, I go by the CEO. If the CEO is a very good leader. And sometimes you can tell, you know, if they’re just after just the money or they’re actually trying to help people as well.

 

Abby: That’s actually very important because, I guess you can tell it through the ingredients that they put in. Right?

Dr. Jeanette: Yeah. The ingredients they put in. And as well as, you know, the certifications and the third party testing that’s so important as well. Well they really want it to work. They’re not in for the short term. A lot of people are in just to grab as much as they can even if it’s doing it illegally or not yet. But they’re in for the longterm to be global. And that’s a good thing too.

Abby: Yeah, that’s great. I looked on the website and I actually saw that their ingredients are really clean. So if people want to learn more about this brand, where can they go to find out more about it? Do you have their website or

Dr. Jeanette: It’s M E D T E R R A.com.

Abby: That’s great. Thank you. What are your thoughts on lysosomal CBD? Because that’s a term that I’ve heard recently from one of the other companies out there.

Dr. Jeanette: I think a lot of people are working on that to see if they can put it in a lyposomal form so that it can be absorbed more quickly and get in to a greater level. I’m not sure how successful is each of the companies have been yet. Which company did you hear that from?

Abby: I think it’s called Prime My Body CBD. They had a product called RECEPT.

Dr. Jeanette: I hadn’t heard of that, but I do know that mentor professor and chemist is working on lyposomal function as well for their CBD.

Abby: And I know you came up with your own skincare line as well, so you’re also very knowledgeable in terms of making sure everything is good.

Dr. Jeanette: Yes, that was about 15 years ago. That was just before naturals became a big hit. So I went through the whole process of doing it myself. Just skincare line because I didn’t have investors or a lot of people helping me. I did it all myself. So I do know all of the steps.

Abby: Wow, that’s really great. It takes a lot of work. Are there any last words or pieces of advice that you want to let our audience know about CBD or anything to do with the CBD and eczema?

Dr. Jeanette: There’s a whole lifestyle around [inaudible] most of your clientele. It’s about moisturizing and some people have food sensitivities. You can have access to my book and my website. It is 20 years old. The legislature, there’s been new, but it’s still relevant. It’s a drjacknin.com. You can purchase it for $10, or there is another integrative dermatology book. It came out, it’s under Dr. Weil’s name, but I wrote the first 3 chapters and then other dermatologists, most of them professors wrote the rest of the chapters. So that’s more recent. I believe it came out about five years ago.

So I think that the same group of this integrative dermatologists meet at the American Academy of Dermatology. There’s usually about 13 of us. Our plans come out with the third book eventually to update everything. Also Dr. Peter Lio is a national expert on eczema and he spoke at the integrative dermatology conference and he’s out of Chicago.

Abby: . Yeah, he’s been, he’s been on the show a few times. Well he’s really great. He has a lot of information to share and a lot of passion. He was at the a conference and there’s a really passionate, friendly personality. Thank you so much for being on the show. You gave a lot of helpful information for all of us to know. If people want to learn more about your book, I know you mentioned the website. Do you mind spelling it out for some people who are just listening as well?

Dr. Jeanette: Yes, it’s www.drjacknin.com. And my book is on there. I own the rights now. So I was saying anybody who wants to buy it for $10 a day, I’m a copy of the book. Thank you so much.