Top Mental Strategies to Deal With TSW (Topical Steroid Withdrawal) – The Eczema Podcast S3E9

Abby:  Did you know that nearly one third of adults with eczema have challenges in school or their work life and 14% believe that academic or career progression has been hindered by their eczema and nearly 40% of patients with eczema report that they turned down a job or an educational opportunity because of it and that is so common these days. We missed a lot of work days. We turned down job opportunities. I often get messages about how people are scared to not only cope at their job but also to be at job interviews because they are afraid of getting a job and also just what their employer might think of them when they see that they have eczema and that is a hard part.

And today I have a guest on the show who will talk about mental coping strategies to deal with topicals there at withdrawal. And she’s also had eczema for most of her life as well. And she’s used steroids for a large part of it. So I hope that her coping strategies will be able to help you. And before we start, I also wanted to share a really cool testimony from my eight week group coaching program. It just really makes me so happy whenever I hear that someone has had a result. And I remember before she joined she tried a lot of things. So just wanna play this short clip for you before we begin with today’s podcast.

Clip from member of 8 week group coaching program: “Oh, I just want to say thank you so much for like being there and you know, it’s just been great to have other people that you know are having the same experience as you. And you know, this has really been helpful cause I always even at the point where it’s just like I spent so much money, like, should I even do this? Like this is another thing. Like, I’m just putting myself further debt, but I realized that, you know, this has really helped a lot. And so just want to say thank you. You know, for just being there and you know help me to guide me in the information that you have. And so, you know, it’s just been really helpful. Like, you know, finally having somebody that understand what you’re going through and you’re able to go to them and you know, have that support. So just wanna say thank you.”

 

That is just a short clip from one of our last calls with one of the participants in our program. And I just want to encourage you that there are so many coaching groups out there and support groups. You don’t have to join mine, but I am trying to show you the power of actually having support out there. Whether it’s me or someone else, I think that as long as you can find someone who can support you, that it is great. And remember you can always reach out to me on Instagram, on Facebook. And without further ado, let’s start today’s podcast.

Today is my special guest, who is a good friend of mine and she was also part of my 8 week group coaching program as well. And it has just been such an honor to see her sore and just the changes that she’s made. I feel like she’s made such a huge change in her skin, in her mindset. And today she’s just going to share about her story, about going through topical steroid withdrawal and how she went through it with her coping strategies.

I am so excited to have her on the show. Her name is Cassie. She’s a registered nurse and I’m going to let her share a little bit more about herself, who she is, and how her topical steroid withdrawal journey started.

Cassie: Hey everyone. Thank you for having me, Abby. I’m so excited to finally be doing this. I am a registered nurse, a holistic eczema lifestyle blogger, known as the naturalistic nurse. And I am a sound healer based in the Los Angeles area. And as for my relationship with eczema, I have had moderate to severe eczema for most of my life, like over 20 years. And in the past few years I’ve gone through a very difficult topical steroid withdrawal through which I primarily healed through drastic lifestyle and diet change.

Abby: Thank you for sharing that. And yeah, it’s just so amazing to hear your journey. So can you bring us back to when it all started, when you decided to stop topical steroids and make a change and what that was like? Yeah, of course. So I decided to stop using topical steroids on my skin completely back in about 2015 and until then I had used topical steroids on and off throughout my whole life. And I remember during this time I was in nursing school, so I was going through a very stressful time in my life and it didn’t seem like there was any specific trigger at this time.

Cassie: My skin started going nuts. My eczema just started blowing up all over my arms on my neck. And at that time I actually had never had eczema on my neck or on my face. And for the first time in my life, that’s when it was first starting to pop up. And I remember going to the doctor for probably like the hundredth time and just getting more topical steroids from them. And I just remember feeling so defeated and I had used this, the specific medication on my skin for a couple of weeks at this point. And I remember putting it on my skin burn so badly, but it was the only thing that my doctor was able to give me. So it was kind of like a catch 22 like, do I just continue living in this pain, or do I continue putting this medicine on that still causes me pain either way.

It doesn’t seem to be a real fix. So that was kind of the last straw for me and I just decided to stop using steroids all together. And that was actually the last time I even went to go see a conventional doctor for my skin ever because I just felt so defeated and I had just had it with feeling kind of let down by the conventional medical system of how to heal my skin longterm. So yeah, from from that point, I was still able to live with it for a couple more years even. And then in 2017 toward the end of nursing school, pretty much the same thing was happening again. That my eczema just started really, really ramping up and to a point that it became unliveable now.

So that was what kind of pushed me to go a completely opposite route of what I had ever tried in my life. And I began using traditional Chinese herbal medicine. I use acupuncture. I did a complete 180 degree change with my diet, with my lifestyle. I was super aware of what I was putting on. My skin now is so much worse. So it’s still to stay on top of like my mental health and my emotional feeling going through all of this. It was, it’s a, it was a journey still is.

Abby: Thank you for sharing that. So what do you think managed to help you the most during your journey? Because I know you went through a lot and I think you healed a lot faster than most people I’ve seen who went through tropical steroid withdrawal.

Cassie: I think that in the beginning, I feel like years later now, a couple of years later, I feel like my healing, I can see it kind of in big phases, like big chunks. So at first I feel like it was a lot about the physical healing and of course there was so much mental, emotional, even like spiritual stress on top of that. But a lot of it was about the physical because it’s so, it’s so present and it’s so close to you all the time that like the physical pain just wipes every other concern out of your mind. So what helps me the most through that was [inaudible] I think was my Chinese herbalists continuing with Chinese herbs for about a year. That helps so much with just the progression of shedding all of those layers of years of eczema through going through topical steroid withdrawal. And it was definitely painful. But I think me being so consistent with that helped a ton.

And then second to that, I would say definitely diet change, just cutting out things like gluten, dairy, pretty much all animal products and being really strict with it in the beginning and after that, what kind of followed was a lot of the emotional stressors that I learned to cope with, which took a lot of trial and error and time. But what helps so much with like this, my emotional and mental health of course number one is having an amazing support system.

Finding your group coaching programs definitely helped and little things. Then I was able to do on my own in a, on a daily basis. Number one is meditation and number two is just practicing mindfulness and gratitude in everything that I did and that I do now.

Abby: Yeah. And I want to dive into that for sure. And I just also want to quickly mentioned that I think your boyfriend at that time, he was really sweet and he actually messaged me because he wanted to help you join the group coaching program and I just thought that that was so sweet that he actually helped you join and paid for your registration and to help you heal.

Cassie: Yeah. I actually have a funny story, like a sign about that that’s actually really relevant to like emotional and mental healing through this. So my boyfriend at the time who found Abby’s group coaching program online [inaudible] at that point I remember I was at like the lowest mental and emotional canyon I had ever ad. I could never imagine feeling, feeling that in my life. And he found your group online and he was telling me about it and I remember I was just feeling so distraught and so much pain and so depressed.

I like wasn’t even listening because I was so hopeless that I felt like I can’t even try one more thing. I’ve already tried every single thing, like nothing is going to push me to try even more. Like I just felt so done that I actually really needed someone to like push me to do it and just make it so easy for me. And once I stepped through that door, there is this whole other world of a way to heal your skin. And a lot to focus on your emotional and mental wellbeing. Definitely still a lot of up and downs. But that is what like really pushed me out of that rut that I was in. And I think that for a lot of us, we’ve tried so many things that we just feel so hopeless.

Abby: Like a lot of us have tried so many things and it’s just so hard. I know you also want to focus on talking about, you know, some of the coping strategies that you’ve had and maybe go more in depth into some of the routines that you had. I would love to hear more in depth about some of the the coping strategies that you mentioned.

Cassie: Yeah, of course. So practicing mindfulness and gratitude now comes so naturally to me. But like rewind two years ago, it was something that I really had to be consciously aware of in order to ingrain it into the way my way of being. And so one major thing that helps me to start meditating daily was to start using a meditation mobile app. And my favorite mobile app for meditation is calm. I know a lot of people are also fans of Headspace, which is also a good one.

I liked the interface and I liked that it connects a lot with nature and even sounds of nature and images of nature. I felt like especially calming and what made using that app so easy to incorporate it into my daily life is that they have guided meditations that are only like five to 10 minutes long, depending on however much time you have on your hands. And it’s super easy. You don’t have to think about it as meditating. You can even think about it like listening to a podcast. Like you just throw it on and like lay back and let it play and like let it run through your ears, let it run through your mind and body. And just continuously doing that over and over it starts to become like a part of your routine and your day. And I found that once I started doing it regularly, when I would get too busy to do it, I would actually start craving like, oh, I really need to meditate because I know how centered it would make me feel and I know how much anxiety it would help ease.

Abby: Yeah. So I, I guess it’s almost like when you start eating healthy food, you start to actually crave it more and you start to get used to it. And one thing I’m actually also really interested in is hearing about how it was having topical steroids [inaudible] and healing from it while you were living with your boyfriend before. Because I know that so many people will have questions about, you know, how did you cope with that while you were recovering? Was it helpful to, to live with your partner or was it harder? Did you feel like it was a burden or things like that?

Cassie: A little bit of both. Honestly, it was definitely helpful just to have someone there to physically help me with things like, you know, doing laundry, washing vegetables and washing produce and cooking and things that I wasn’t physically able to do because of like the eczema and just all my peeling skin prevented me from doing that. That was really helpful to have someone there.

Abby: I remember one time you mentioned that you couldn’t reach a cup and you know, that was, that in itself was so hard. So thankfully for things like that, there is someone to help.

Cassie: Yeah, definitely. And I was lucky enough that before I had lived with him, I’ve had lived with an household of roommates. So it was also kind of easy to ask people if I needed help for a little thing. But what made it a little easier to ask like a significant other was just because they were so much closer to like the pain that I was in. Cause I was so much more open with them as opposed to another friend stress with like really what it felt like for me and how difficult simple things were.

Abby: Hmm. I guess in terms of like were there any negatives as well in terms of, I guess, were things harder for him or yourself?

Cassie: I would say definitely, you mentioned the word burden earlier. That was one thing that I really, really struggled with. It’s so hard, even with someone that loves you so much, it’s so hard to not feel like a burden sometimes when physically you feel like you can barely do anything and like you need help to do every single little thing when even like getting out of bed and like dusting your bed off with all of those skin please. Like that’s painful. Reaching a cup off their shelf. Like little things like that. It’s hard not to feel like a burden sometimes. And what did help me cope through that was just voicing exactly that, of how I felt about that to my partner at the time. And just saying that I know that you do want to help me but I feel bad sometimes, and having an open dialogue about it really does help because then you know how they’re feeling. Cause sometimes there’s caregiver burnout – which is definitely a real thing. So it’s good to just vent all of that out into the open.

Abby: I like how you termed that caregiver burnout and I think that’s such a great term because I know that my husband felt exactly the same way too, especially, you know when you throw a kid in the picture it’s, it’s even more work. So I definitely struggled with just feeling like a big burden to him. And you know, I never want to actually be a burden to anyone but I feel like saw in those flares like the deepest flares. Like there are times when we just need that extra support.

And then when we get out of that phase you know, we’re, we’re more capable to do more things. I want to go back to some of the strategies that you mentioned and the things that have really helped you as well because I know, you know, you also around the time your healing, you also graduated and became a registered nurse, so you were working 12 hour shifts.

Cassie: That was really hard. That was so hard. But thankfully, just by the luck of my life, the timeline the things worked out, I was able to just barely do it. But I mean, the more, the more that I invested in like my feeling process and really committing to you know, the changes that I had made then slowly but surely like I did, it was easier. And even now, like a year later, there are still things that I am kind of coping with that began like a year ago. That kind of just dragged out. That’s just part of the healing process.

Abby: And were you able to practice any of your coping strategies at work during your 12 hour shifts?

Cassie: Oh yeah, definitely. So one thing that I had learned about anxiety and panic attacks with eczema is that panic attacks became a common thing – but definitely not uncommon. So one thing that really helps during a panic attack or like a really intense anxiety attack is to slow your breathing. But sometimes when you’re hyperventilating, then that is so hard to do.

So what helps is to choose what’s called a grounding object, so you can choose like one object in your surrounding and just like focus all of your attention onto it. And just note like its color, its size, its shape, everything about it pretty much. And zoning in on the details of one thing helps to kind of sink your body into the intention of like slowing down and just focusing. So I definitely practiced that a lot during my work days. Like when I would be in a situation where like I couldn’t just like drop everything and go. So that definitely helped a lot.

Abby: And then how did you cope with needing to scratch?

Cassie: Oh man. A lot of trips to the restroom. That’s how I did it too when I was working. Yeah. That’s like what I hear most people do when they’re  stuck in a scratching fit at work usually. Yeah. I mean it’s like private, it’s kind of easily accessible, hopefully. Yeah. But what did get really difficult is when like, you have to scratch so often that it’s like, I can’t go keep going to the restroom so often. And especially in like my line of work, it’s really, really difficult sometimes to just like drop everything and go, even if you need to go to the bathroom. Like sometimes, your work does call for you to stay focused on what you’re doing before you can tend to other things.

Abby: So how did you deal with that? Like, did you have to let your manager be aware of your condition?

Cassie: I didn’t let them know to an extent, but for the most part I did a lot of what helps the most during those times. It was a lot of deep breathing and just like focusing on calming my like keeping my anxiety calm even during times that I was feeling really itchy.

Abby: I think that’s great that you mentioned that because when you go through something really tough, it really trains you to find solutions that will help you when you’re pushed to the limit. And so, you know, that’s really great that you developed strategies like meditation.

Cassie: And just focusing on certain objects and also like you just mentioned, the deep breathing and I think that’s all very, very helpful. [inaudible] And things like even like practicing gratitude, it helped a lot too. Like I would think a lot to myself. Like even when I was like really itchy but I couldn’t just leave what I was doing. Even just, or I would be like leaving along day on long night at work and like my breasts and my arms would be almost literally bloodied up because of like 12 hours of movement when like even the slightest numeric hurts. And just telling myself like, okay, well instead of focusing on this hurts so much, I hate this, then I can be, I can choose to be thankful and to voice like my gratitude that at least I feel to this point that I can actually work now because even in months before that, like there’s no way that I wouldn’t have been able to get a job or to get out of bed to work even like a 12 hour shift – and now look at me.

Abby: Yeah, even if you’re still aren’t in pain there, there are signs of healing. You just kind of have to find that and focus on them. And I think that’s so great because one thing that we always remind people in our group is that you might not always realize or recognize your progress because you’re living in it all the time. And you know, the important thing is to celebrate the little victories. Take pictures. You don’t have to look at it, but then when you’re far enough in your healing journey, you can look back and you can remember what it was like before. And you can remember things that you could do yesterday that you can, the things that you can do today that you couldn’t do yesterday. You know, for example, like Cassie mentioned, she couldn’t reach even, she couldn’t even reach to get a cup.

Abby: For me it was, you know, little things like, you know, hurting too. It really hurts so much just to move and, and exercise. And today if finally doesn’t. So just celebrating the little victories. And I think one thing I want to share that for myself, one thing that really, really helped a lot was visualization. So just visualizing my healing everyday and picturing what it would look like when I was fully healed. Visualizing what my friends and family would say when they saw me fully healed and just feeling the feelings of it. I know Tony Robbins, he shares that it really helps your brain achieve things faster when you visualize. So hopefully that tip will help some of you out there as well.

Cassie: I have a note, a note to say it’s like related to visualization. That helps me a lot too, that I didn’t really, I wasn’t able to experience the benefits of it until like maybe even year into it. Like from the point I started healing. But affirmations, it’s saying affirmations out loud. They’re powerful. I know, I get it. But I remember our other coach Jen hall, one affirmation that she always promoted was to say, I am healing or I am healed.

Abby: Yeah. At the end of each call I would always say, but we would put our hand, our hand over our heart and we would say, I love my body. I think my body, I am loved and I am healing and yeah, you’re right. It’s just such a wonderful mantra to say and to, you know, remember for ourselves.

Cassie: Yeah, definitely. I remember even in the beginning, like really, really early stages in my healing journey, I knew how beneficial that was and I like understood the whole logic behind it, but the point that I was emotionally and mentally, personally, I actually couldn’t bring myself to say those words out loud and I would actually try to speak it, but something inside of me like was actually stopped. Like I just became mute every time I tried to speak those words out because I felt like it was so untrue that I couldn’t even speak it out of my mouth.

And then this is kind of, it relates to how you said, you know, you’re always in the progress of healing and so it’s like the little things that make you realize, Whoa, I’m really, then maybe about like six to 12 months later after I had like really committed to this whole healing journey. I remember I was writing in my journal and I wrote without thinking I am healed. Wow. When I saw those words on the page, I was like, Whoa, I have never like I have never let that come out of me before Evan. I read it out loud for the first time ever. I was able to say it. And even just having that experience was so powerful that I could not believe how, yeah. How powerful just speaking affirmations into the universe and you know, into existence really are,

Abby: And your skin looks amazing now. Like for people who are listening on audio and can’t see your skin, it really looks so good. Like you can’t even tell that you went through topical steroid withdrawal. You don’t even have like scars. And yeah, it just looks so good.

Cassie: Yeah, it does. I feel really good about it. My arms, like the rest of the body is a little bit different story, but it does really feel good to see the difference in your skin. And yeah. When people tell you like, people in your life that see you in person, they tell you, you know, like you, your skin is looking better. Like it’s looking good. Yeah. It feels good.

Abby: And I think for myself, like when I first tried to do visualization, like I just couldn’t visualize myself heal. Like it was so hard. And I know a lot of people struggle that too because it’s, you feel like it’s been so hard and you just feel like, how can you picture yourself heal? Like it just seems so unattainable. Yeah. But you know, the fact that we can, we can rewire our brain and really change how the way we think the way you are healing, you know, and it’s just amazing that you’re finally able to even say out loud your affirmation.

Cassie: Yeah. And I, one thing that I picked up recently that I actually wish I had implemented this like years ago is so now I actually have affirmations written out like all over my house, all over my like in my bedroom and my living space and my even in my bathroom because I like have experienced personally how powerful they are. I wish I knew before to write on my mirror. Yeah. Just to write, write a reminder or write an affirmation. Even if you don’t put it in first person, like you’re the one saying it. Even just seeing those words constantly every time, like at least once a day. Every time you look in the mirror, every time you go to the bathroom, it’s so powerful. The effects that it can have on you mentally and emotionally.

Abby: And also I used to follow Louis Hay a lot and she teaches mirror work where you just look in the mirror directly at your eyes and yourself and you just stare at yourself and you say, I am loved, I am healing. And you just say like three word, phrase phrases. And it is the most touching thing ever. And I just broke down a lot and I just felt like a wave of emotions come out of me. Like guilt about how much I went through and you know, all this love as well for myself. And it’s, it’s really powerful when you look in the mirror.

Cassie: Yeah, I’ve experienced similar things too. And I would say like even more so with eczema and like topical steroid withdrawal because it’s such a visual illness that like really looking at yourself and might feel silly at first, but like connecting with your physical self

Abby: And say loving words to yourself, like it helps so much. Hm. Yeah, it’s all about the words, the way you see yourself at. Now. Tell me more about this sound healing that you got into as well. Is there like, I’ve read articles before that you know this because sound frequency actually can change your brain waves. And I read things about different healing actually has like different frequencies. So, for example, like thyroid healing and you know, just releasing like negative trauma in your life and like even things like boosting the immune system, they all have different frequencies which I’ve actually been looking into a lot called by narrow beats. So I know there is some science behind it, but I was wondering, is there any science behind it that you can also share more with our, our view, our listeners? Ah, yes.

Cassie: Well I will start with kind of a display, right, that there is like very limited science that supports like sound therapy, especially on a large scale clinical basis. Just because, I mean simply put, that’s not where a lot of money will come from, but it is a practice that has been like, had that has existed for thousands of years for about like at least like 2,500 years. And I think the first instruments that were used for sound therapy where, I mean like 5,000 years ago. So even though scientific evidence is limited at this time, like it is a very long practice tradition that does still have some scientific support. But that’s the reason for like limited research around it.

Abby: I’m not sure if I’m right in remembering this, but I was actually looking up scientific articles on the science behind sound healing and I think I saw something like where sound healing actually has helped cases of people with cancer. And yeah, I don’t know if you’ve ever seen anything like that, but I know like, you know, sound therapy really just even music in general changes our mood. Yeah. Feel Speaker 3: A lot of, of the benefits of sound healing,

Cassie: We can see a lot of physical benefit because the vibrational frequency and audio tone can affect ourselves physically, but even more so because of the benefits that we receive emotionally and like sometimes even spiritually and like definitely like psychologically, mentally, all of that, they’re so profound that the healing that we receive in that space is more of the reason why we can heal more physically. It’s kind of like all hand in hand because healing is not like an isolated thing. It’s not like you can only heal your physical body. It’s like always emotional, mental, integrated, healing process.

Abby: And I actually want to share something interesting because I know that, you know, you’ve tried my Conqueror dry skin soothing balm and I also have my Conqueror bath treatment, but I’m adding products to my conquer line. And I’m actually coming out with some new products that I’m launching. Things like bodywash lotion and like, you know, call me, spray, call me spray. And the really cool thing about these new products is that, I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of Dr. Emoto. He’s the Japanese guy who did a lot of experiments where he found that when people spoke different words and sounds over like things like rice and water, it changed the chemical structure of them. So for example, rice, he had like three different experiment, three different rice jars. One of them he said nothing too.

Abby: And then the other one, it was labeled “I hate you”. And then another one was labeled “I love you”. And one was left alone, and the one that said “I hate you” was rotting. And the one that said I love you, that one was the one that was thriving. And even if you look at water crystals under microscope, you’ll notice that sound and loving music, and when you praise it or, or thank you or say loving things, it will make such beautiful crystals. Like it’ll look like snowflakes. You can look it up online and do a Google image search for it. And then when they said really bad words over it like “I want to kill you”, or they mentioned the word Hitler or had like bad words over it, those water crystals would be so disjointed and it would look ugly.

Abby: So it’s interesting. So what I was trying to get to was the new products that I’m creating, a lot of it is actually based on Dr. Emoto’s work. So the water and some of the ingredients that are put into these new products that I’m creating will actually be based on Dr. Emoto’s work where it will actually have beautiful sounds playing over it. I think even for like nine hours a day, it’s just like loving music played over the ingredients that you’re going to use and put on your body. And so that’s something that I feel really good about is that yeah, the ingredients are, are not just you know, picked with love and not just a organic, but then, you know, loving words and thoughts are spoken over it so that when you use it, you’re using something that has been fed with love and that has been fed so that we can help you on your, your journey as well. So, yeah. Tell me more about this sound healing as well and your experiences with it.

Cassie: It’s so funny that you mentioned Dr. Emoto because I hold a public sound healing sessions and every time that I do a sound healing session, the first 10 minutes I do like kind of an intro of the science behind sound healing for skeptics and Dr. Emoto, his work is like a major thing that I talk about.

Abby: That’s excellent.

Cassie: I mean, yeah, for good reason because what I’ve learned is that a basic kind of equation that you can think of how sound healing works is frequency plus intention equals healing. So frequency is like the actual vibration or the actual audio. So like we were talking about earlier how meditation can help heal the cells in our body. I mean conventional medicine, the way that it approaches health in general is kind of like to kill off the bad thing so that therefore what you’re left with is your health but opposed to that like alternative and more holistic approach in general is more about building up your health so that you are better equipped to overcome any illness or disease that you’ve come across. So same with sound healing.

Cassie: It’s more about like building up your health and strengthening your body versus taking fruit versus taking anything away or subtraction. So when we think about like your body in terms of sound, then you can kind of think about it. Like if you’re in perfect place, then all of your organs and the cells in your body are performing like a beautiful into an orchestra. Everyone is like, you know exactly what they’re playing. Everything is moving smoothly and when you become ill or yeah. Having disease or eczema, anything like one instrument is out of tune or even like a group of instruments is out of tune. And that’s kind of like the orchestra can still play but it’s going to sound kind of off. So the way that sound healing works through frequency is kind of to use that vibration from whatever healing instruments that you choose to use to kind of retune that out of tune PO portion of your body so that your whole body can perform, like be in a harmonized state again.

Abby: Mmm. And move you more toward optimal health. And that’s very interesting because I think what happens is in our bodies, our cells store a lot of trauma too. So I think it’s a very interesting that the sound healing has the ability to change the way we feel about things and to help release emotion.

Cassie: So the second part of that equation, which is frequency plus intention this is kind of goes back to Dr. Emoto is where is the actual vibration is important, but the intention behind it is so profound too. So just like you’re saying that different like say two glasses of water can be crystallized differently based on the intention that they’re labeled with like a loving intention versus a hating intention that actually changes like their cellular structure.

Cassie: To make it more relatable or more understandable for people, think about, say somebody’s seeing an old friend at a party or something. You can say the same exact words, like say like, “Hey, it’s so great to see you” with intention and the receiver will receive it and therefore feel very differently depending on the intention behind your words. So if you say “okay, it’s so great to see you”. There’s like a sarcastic, undertone to it. Imagine how that would make you feel versus being greeted, “Oh, Hey, it’s so great to see you”. Like the intention is so different even though the frequency or the words are exactly the same. That’s why like intention is just as important as like the vibration in, in terms of healing, in terms of like your end product and yeah, it’s just so amazing to see all you see you share this because you know, I’ve watched you grow from, you know, when you’re first, you know, suffering a lot from your skin flares.

Cassie: And I still remember that first time you’re on the first call and you said, wow, I never knew this is, you know, I didn’t expect what would happen. But you know, I’m so thankful that I joined this and I remember you saying I was texting my sister and telling her about this and he said, where was I when I had flare ups? And so, you know, it’s just so amazing to see you grow into like, it’s like you’ve grown into this beautiful butterfly and people through what you’ve gone through. And a lot of things that I’ve come up through my own healing journey over like the past couple of years. Yeah. Just new coping strategies. Like they come up as ideas like, wow, where was this? Where like how come I didn’t know about this a year ago? Yeah. More reason. Why do you want to like share it through through my blog and through sound healing.

Cassie: Yeah. Just to make it easier for people and make things more accessible. So for your sound healing, can you share with our listeners like some of the things that your, the people that you’ve worked with have, have experienced during the sessions? Oh yeah, of course. So what happens [inaudible] logistically and physically, what happens during a sound healing is like you will have a sound healer. So that would be me. And then however many participants, usually you’ll lay on the floor, like on a yoga mat, like as if imagine in a yoga studio and you lay just comfortably and you, it’s kind of a meditative experience. So it depends on the sound healer. Sometimes they utilize like guided meditation in the beginning or the end just to kind of help ease you into that relaxed state. So once I do that, then I have a handful of instruments that I like using.

Cassie: My primary instrument that is really calls to me the most is I’m crystal singles. I use seven of them along with a handful of different times and an ocean drum and the sound session would last anywhere from like 25 minutes to an hour. Like they go as long as the participant witches and I usually end each session with a guided meditation to bring the back to the room and kind of ground them as well. And then we’ll have like a little discussion regarding like, you know, what did you experience, did anything come up for you? And it’s amazing to hear like just the wide like variety, the whole spectrum of from people that have like a lot of experience with sound healing and sound baths and like receiving and like first-timers people that are like super into spirituality. People that are really skeptical that are not at all but well across the board.

Cassie: Everyone that I’ve worked with has had a really great experience and has shared that they would love to have that experience. Again. One thing that one of my participants shared with me is that he described it as like kinda like getting a massage and he even said like in the beginning you don’t, he didn’t feel like he had like this big thing that he wanted or needed to heal, but it was still very, it felt very beneficial for him by the end because it just felt like, it felt like a, a really, really big form of self care.

Abby: That’s so great. And I’m interested in knowing, you know, what goes through your mind while you’re actually doing the sound healing session? Like are you participating in, you’re actually receiving and feeling healing yourself?

Cassie: Yeah, kind of, kind of both. So I definitely do. At the beginning of my sessions I have all of my participants that an intention for themselves and share however much if they want to have like what that might entail for them or anything that they personally are going through because that does help me as a sound healer to like keep their intention in my mind as I’m like giving you sound. So I mean, yeah, like I said before, like how important intention is. So just like to get more specific, it really is helpful and even if people don’t, aren’t able to share or like don’t wish to share beforehand, then the whole time I’m very, I just feel very, very present with the people that have come to me for the certain reasons of yeah, for healing or for self care and that presence kind of sinks into myself definitely and into everyone else and into like the entire room. It’s a very, very cool feeling that it’s like almost palpable that after the session it’s like everyone is moving very much on the same wavelength and has it had a very like this pleasant, calming, like reduced anxiety, refreshed feeling.

Abby: I think it’s, it reminds me of a Tony Robbins, he says that when he meditates, he also sends love around the room to his friends. And I think, you know, that really changes things. And you know, I go to church and one thing that they teach is to do soaking music where you’re soaking to music and you’ll lie down and we’ll just play like soaking like instrumental worship music and let God’s love, you know, soak in us and fill us as well. And I guess in a way it’s, it’s almost similar with soaking and letting the music change our lives.

Cassie: The thought of like emitting love into the room and into others. And like emitting like healing and the thoughts of healing and like the feeling of healing that, yeah. It’s just so powerful.

Abby: And so do you do sound healing only in person or you do them online as well?

Cassie: So I do them only in person. I’m based in Los Angeles, so just in the area. In a few months I think I am going to be able to expand to at least like California ish cause sometimes I am at down in San Diego, so, so Cal, sometimes I am up in the Bay area. So like San Francisco, Oakland.

Abby: Yeah. And that’s just so amazing again, to watch you grow and just see how far you comment. Yeah, it just, it always touches my heart whenever I see people who, you know, experienced so much healing and change and who we’ve been able to watch grow for my group. So yeah, I just want to ask, are there any last words you want to share? A last words of advice for anyone who is going through severe eczema or topical steroid withdrawal?

Cassie: I mean kind of to piggy back off of you that some much like healing and growth can happen. It’s very possible. Yeah. I just want to leave everyone with the words to know that healing is so possible. I mean, at the beginning of this call I was telling a story about how I wasn’t like a dark deep Canyon that I literally did not think that I could heal from that ever. And now like, yes, it might take you one, two, three, however many years, even months. But yeah, healing is, it’s definitely a day to day thing, but it’s something that as more time passes, like you’re going to really be able to see those results and how like just how powerful your body has become. Abby: Yeah. Yeah. I used to have really deep dark thoughts too and very suicidal thoughts. And I remember, you know, I lived next to a a window that would open up and I lived on the 17th floor, like a really tall building when I was growing up in Hong Kong. And I, during my big worst flares, like I thought of like the darkest thoughts, you know, about what I could do with that window that was next to me. But I’m just so thankful that, you know, nothing happened and that, you know, God kept us safe and you know, eventually, you know, we’ve been able to turn our stories around and yeah, you know, you’re right, we can really turn things around and not, you know, not to

Cassie: Lose hope or give up. Yeah. And even like remembering those dark thoughts like we’ve going through a severe eczema on topical steroids withdrawal, like we have definitely all have dark thoughts. I’m proud. Like there is a spectrum of dark thoughts and we’ve all been somewhere on that spectrum. We have remembering that as you go through your healing process, like remembering that as important because it’s a roller coaster. Yeah. And even even now, like you might see me today and be like, Oh wow, Riskin is so like, it looks so good. It looks so clear. She seems like she’s in really high spirits. I mean she’s helping other people’s people feel themselves, but I mean it’s such an ongoing process and I still have eczema and I still, you know, have bad skin days. I have, yeah. Like days that I still deal with depression, anxiety, it’s just, it’s an ongoing thing and the more time that passes and the more than you can just keep pushing through, then you’re going to [inaudible] be better equipped and your toolbox is just going to keep like getting more and more full of coping mechanisms to help you live the life that you once thought never was possible, but it’s so attainable.

Cassie: Yeah. I love the way that you put it. Also, there was something else that I wanted to mention, but I just lost my train of thought. Oh yeah. I wanted to ask you, how long did your healing take? Because I know you’re healing. It took faster than a lot of people did. I think it’s hard to say. Like I remember after he joined our program within one month there was such a noticeable difference in your photos and they’re still on my group coaching website in case anyone wants to check it out@cockereczemaacademy.com like your photos one month before and one month after they’re crazy. It’s like it went from red to like a whole different skin. Yeah, I remember those photos. But even even since then like it healed so much more. Yeah. Cause I wouldn’t even say like that was like, it’s such a roller coaster that that was like my first, like my first, Oh and then after that was like a million of it that like sometimes your skin will even revert back to like what it used to look like when you were having a really hard time.

Cassie: But just knowing that like it’s temporary ups and downs are going to happen. Yeah. It just feels like, I think because everything is so up and down. That’s why it’s hard to put a timeline on it. But I would say that the one year that I did Chinese medicine and I was really committed to it, Chinese medicine and acupuncture, my skin healed tremendously. And when I even say healed, I wouldn’t say that it felt a lot better because that healing was a lot of shedding and it was still a lot of pain. And even after that year, I was still studying a ton. But during, yeah, like the shining is, you know, it’s getting all of that old eczema out of your body. And after that I would say I was still heavily shedding for at least like eight months. And then after that was so ongoing but more with a focus on like psychological emotional, mental healing from all of that, like years of trauma.

Cassie: And if anyone wants to check out my last episode, I actually interviewed a traditional Chinese medicine dermatologist. So that was a really good episode. And I also want to mention not to compare your healing with anyone else because everyone’s healing times will be so different or everything that you’re going through will be different from someone else. So you know, everyone’s chapter will be different, so don’t compare yourself with anyone else.

Abby: Cassie, where can people find you if they want to get in contact with you or reach you?

Cassie: Of course. You can check me out at my website, the naturalisticnurse.com and you can also follow me on Instagram at the @Natnurse. And I’m also on YouTube under both of those names and I produce content pretty regularly. Thank you so much. It was so great talking to you. Thank you too. This was really fun.