How to use Red light therapy to treat eczema – The Eczema Podcast (S3E10)

(Please note that the timestamp starts when the actual interview with the guest begins).

Abby: Today is one of my most exciting episodes that I’ve ever filmed and that’s because I have a really great guest on the show who shared a lot of exciting things that I really learned a lot about and they are Joovv. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them before, but if you’ve ever heard about all of the rage about red light therapy, then Joovv was actually the first to start creating these devices for you to use at home. There are a lot of people who endorse it like a lot of health professionals like Dr. Axe, Ben Greenfield, Dr. Mercola, so there are a lot of big names that have really been supporting this and that’s why I was really interested in interviewing the founders. A lot of people use it for anti aging or muscle recovery or helping with wrinkles or to boost collagen, but I don’t think that many people know that it actually started because the founder was using it to help her eczema get better.

If you are interested in checking out more about Joovv, I have posted the link to their page and their shop page in the description so you can check it out there. And I also want to let you know that today’s episode is sponsored by my conqueror, dry skin soothing balm and my bath soak as well, both of which I use during my flare ups and my hardest times and it is what I still use on a regular basis. So if you’re interested in checking that out you can head to my website eczemaconquerors.com and I have a lot of information there for you on articles to help your skin. And there’s also the shop page to my conqueror skin products there as well. If you’d also like to continue to follow my eczema journey and my healing journey and see my before and after photos, you can also follow me on Instagram and Facebook at eczema conquerors, that’s eczema conquerors with an S. And you can also join my free Facebook group online and that’s just a free community for you to ask questions and also meet other people who are going through it and also read what other people have posted too.

I look forward to seeing you there and you can always connect with me online. So let’s start with today’s podcast.

Hi everyone. Welcome to another episode of the eczema podcast. Today I have an amazing guest for you. Her name is Melissa stran and she the founder of Joovv and they are really well known for making red light therapy devices. You might have seen them on the market a lot. A lot of people on Instagram have been showing pictures a lot that they’re using it and I think that dr Axe has also been using it too, right? 

Melissa: Yep, that’s correct. 

 

Abby: Yes. So they have a lot of great people who are using their device. So I just want to introduce Melissa to you and just say welcome to the show and thanks for being on the podcast.

 

Melissa: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Abby: I would love to know, how did you guys get started because I know that you had a story about using the product to help with your eczema. So yeah, I want to know more about how you got there and also yeah, what made you guys decide to start this device?

Melissa: Sure. Well it was back in 2014 and we were living in Minnesota at the time and it was in the middle of winter and I was experiencing some pretty annoying eczema in my armpits, which was not allowing me to wear any deodorant. It would burn really bad. And so it was just a very frustrating situation as you can imagine. And I had tried a lot of different things to clear it up, ointments, different things like that. And it just was not clearing. So I was considering maybe doing like some tanning just because I know UV can sometimes help. And I just felt like, Oh, I miss the warm sun. And so I was looking into a tanning package at a local tanning salon and noticed that they had a therapy called red light therapy. And that unlike tanning, it was actually really good for your skin and could actually provide anti-aging benefits.

And I thought, you know, I should try that because if it provides the anti-aging benefits, maybe it will also provide some relief for my eczema. And so I just went mostly just for that warm feeling of the sun in the winter. I really didn’t know what I was going to be getting myself into. I had never heard of the therapy before, but it made him a commitment to go five… at least five times a week. And the treatments were 15 minutes long. And within six weeks of doing this therapy, the eczema completely cleared from my armpits and only that. But I started to notice like my skin had a glow stretch marks that I’d had since my oldest was born. They were kind of smoothing out. And a big thing for me was when I went back and visited my mom and Iowa and she was like, what have you been doing? She’s like, your skin’s got this glow to it. And I thought, okay, so she’s noticing this too. And I knew like, okay, what’s going on on the inside of my body if I’m getting these kinds of benefits on the outside. So I started to look into trying to purchase a device for my home because my oldest son also was dealing with some eczema and it was a pretty big time commitment to drive to the salon five times a week. I’m a busy mom of six children

And so I didn’t have the time to keep going. And when I got online, all I could find was small little squares, you know, that might treat like a small section or maybe your face. And I had been laying in a full red light bed and I was like, this is not going to work for me. I need like the full body treatments. And so I kind of gave up on the therapy for a while just because I just couldn’t make it to the salon repeatedly. And then later that fall, I ran across light therapy again in a healing protocol. I was dealing with some just some gut issues and they like this doctor brought that up as, that was one of the things that was really important to do. And I was like, Oh, that’s that therapy I was doing. And so he had some ideas for maybe trying to make one at home using heat lamps that had the red coating on them.

And so I started talking to my husband and saying, you know, can you, can we like go to Lowe’s? Can we buy these heat lamps? Can we do this? Can we make one? And he was like, eh, I don’t know. You know, it seems kind of hokey. But I kept on him about it. And so we finally went and we bought the heat lamps. We screwed them into the broader full lamp things that we could clip to a board. And I was so excited because I was like, I’ve got my own setup at home now and within like a week or two of doing the therapy, I was like, okay, this is not feel like a salon. I was going to, I really like it. But it felt more like a sauna because of all the heat that was coming off of the bulbs. Plus, you know, you kinda had to be very careful not to burn yourself on them and things like that.

And so while I liked it, I wasn’t getting the same benefits that I had been getting from this lawn. And so my husband and I started looking into it deeper and realized it’s all about the wavelengths of light and that was kind of interesting. Then my husband finally got into more interested in it because we started seeing that there was like literally hundreds and hundreds of clinical studies done for different types of ailments that this light helped. And we read how NASA was the one that first funded research on light therapy to keep astronauts safe and healthy in space. And so my husband’s an engineer and that finally seeing like the scientific research behind it, he was like, okay, you know I’m going to get on board with this with you. And I was just like, do you think we can try to make one that was more like the salon for our home?

Wwe had a fairly small home, we didn’t have room to put a full on tanning bed in our home. And so researching what wavelengths were powerful and we made a device that we could hang on a door in our home and that’s where we were just going to kind of keep it like just for us. And then my brother in law has been in medical sales his whole career and he was like, you know, I can help you guys start to market this if you’d like. And we were like, Oh do you, anybody would want to buy this? I mean, you know, we did it for us. And so, you know, we kind of was like, okay, let’s give it a try and see what happens. And it just like exploded from there. And something we were just not looking for. So it’s been pretty cool.

 

Abby: That is so amazing. I love your story and I just love that you came up with this idea because you are suffering from eczema and you wanted to make it easier and more convenient for people. And so you came up with this device and I think, you know, that is just something so wonderful, especially being a mom of you mentioned six children and just, I just want to let you know that something that you should be really proud of because I’m just seeing so many people use the device, not only for just their face but their whole body. And it seems like it’s becoming a ritual and a routine for a lot of people as well.

Melissa: Yeah, it’s, it’s been really cool. And like I said, something we were not expecting at all. So…

Abby: and I’m also seeing a lot of other devices similar to it come out now. So are there other devices that are, I guess in a way, can we call it copying or copy?

Melissa: Yeah, yeah. Actually after we launched the Joovv, there’s been multiple companies now that have popped up here and there because obviously there was a need for this and people are seeing results and so it’s, it’s become becoming more and more of a popular therapy I would say.

Abby: I also have read something about that. Your device, I think something about EMF, it’s safer compared to other devices or that when we’re looking at red light devices we need to watch out for the EMF rays and things like that. So is there something about that that makes your device different from other devices? 

Melissa: Well we really wanted to keep that in mind when designing our devices, just because our oldest son is extremely sensitive to EMS and so for like the standard of comparing it to like other like a hairdryer and things like that, it’s remarkably low. We also suggest that people treat at it distance of at least six, four to six inches. Because the EMF falls away quite a bit at that standard. And if anyone is interested in learning more, we have a pretty cool article on our website just comparing our device to other devices that also led off EMF that you use daily in your home. And just comparing how low it is compared to those.

 

Abby: I love that you took that into account, because I think I recently read a study somewhere that suggested that the EMF rays might actually be affecting the eczema as well. So I think that it’s really wonderful that you took that into account.

Melissa: Yeah, it can just, it’s can cause like an inflammation load on the body and so just trying to, you know, keep it at a lower level. It is helpful for sure.

Abby: And is there anything else that makes your device from other devices out there?

Melissa: I think… We have a really cool article on our website about this too. But, when looking for a red light therapy device, you really want to look for what wavelengths they’re using. We use wavelengths in the mid 600 nanometer range and in the mid 800 nanometer range. Those are, have the most clinical studies behind them. So you want to look for that. And I think our biggest thing is treatment size, because clinical studies show the more of yourselves that you can expose to this light, the more helpful it will be. And that’s why we wanted to create different sizes and our devices are modular so you can start with a small unit and then you can add onto your device over time so that you can get a very effective treatment in a short amount of time because people are just busy and they’re too busy to stand in front of a light for like 40 minutes a day.

Abby: [inaudible] yeah, that is so true. So do you and your son still have to use the red light therapy continuously to manage your eczema or because you did it a lot before with the red light therapy that your eczema is in a good place right now?

Melissa: Yeah, I… Mine has not returned back and neither has his, we do a lot of other things to be healthy as well. We are big believers in grounding, getting outside as much as you can barefoot and just soaking up that antioxidants. And the energy that we can get just from connecting with the earth. We blocked blue light at night. We try to eat a very healthy diet. So we’ve got a lot of things that we do. But, what red light therapy does is it goes in and it stimulates your mitochondria. The mitochondria are the powerhouse of each cell. And we’ve got, you know, thousands of cells all over our body. And so when we come in contact with environmental stressors, toxins, maybe just a hard stressful week, you know, a hard situation here or there, whatever it might be, that can inhibit the cellular respiration going on or on in ourselves, and it can inhibit our body’s ability to create ATP.

And when that happens, then in the fourth phase of Siler respiration, nitric oxide can bind with cytochrome C oxidase. And when that bond occurs, ATP production is greatly inhibited. And that’s where red light therapy comes in because it breaks that on helping to restore natural, healthy Seiler function, boosting our bodies, ATP production back up to where it should be. And for some people may be higher than it’s ever been. And then with that healthy Seiler function restored, the body’s inflammation goes way down, that collagen production boosts the body and just so many other healthy things. And so that’s how the therapy works. So once you can get your body functioning, maybe at a higher level than it was able to, like lots of healthy things can happen along with an eczema, you know, clearing. And so we continue to use the therapy, especially in the winter months when we aren’t able to get out in the sunlight as much.

But, what was so cool to learn from this whole journey is our bodies were made to run on light. If you think back to like a hundreds of years ago, people spent most of their days outside in the sun working outside. There was no electricity in artificial lighting. And so they were receiving the amount of natural light that they should be getting. And so in doing that, their cells were being fed and were being nourished and we didn’t see as much of like the eczema and the different things that people are dealing with today. But in today’s world it’s really hard. I mean who can spend eight hours a day outside? Even like we’ve gotta get up, you’ve got to go to our jobs, kids got to go to school. And so that’s where the red light therapy is just very helpful because it can deliver a very high dosage of light to your cells in a short amount of time. Helping to kind of restore that natural order that was supposed to be there that people experienced, you know, hundreds of years ago, spending all that time outdoors.

Abby: So does your light also help with the seasonal affective disorder during the winter when there’s less sun?

Melissa: Yeah. Yep it does. And there’s actually some really cool clinical studies on that. 

 

Abby: Wow, that’s amazing. So not only helps with eczema anti aging, but also depression and mitochondria. And I think that that’s so great that it helps so many things. Do you have instructions if someone was to start using the red light therapy for their eczema, how would you recommend them to start using the device?

Melissa: Yeah, that, that’s a really great question. We recommend starting slow, maybe just one to two minutes per day. And then working at, you know, over the course of three to four weeks working up to a 10 minute session per treatment area just because for some people starting out all at once can cause a little bit of a detox reaction just because their body is not used to so much light all at once. But generally speaking when people start out slow, just that one to two minutes a day and work up slowly, they can avoid any kind of detox reaction. And most people tell us, it’s just like the first thing they notice and using the light is they feel so relaxed, just a relaxing feeling. Their sleep gets deeper, better. And they’re like, I didn’t even know I wasn’t sleeping good. And I mean I’m like waking up and I’m like, wow, I didn’t know this could happen. So…

Abby: That’s so great. So eventually they would do about 10 minutes a day, every day, I guess on a regular basis?

Melissa: Yep. 10 minutes per treatment area. So you know, depending on what size device you’re using, we have all different sizes. You know, it would be 10 minutes where directly where that light is hitting. And so some people maybe if they’re treating with a smaller device, they might want to move it around and do a, you know, a few 10 minute treatments on different areas of their body.

Abby: That’s great to hear. Are there also any other differences between, I guess I’ve heard a lot about red light therapy, but how does that differ from phototherapy as well, which has uh, some potential side effects.

 

Melissa: So phototherapy, are you meaning therapy that also has like the UV? Yeah, the UAA. Okay. Yeah, sure. So that’s a, that’s another really great question. The UV, like you said in the UVB, you have to be very careful because over exposing your skin to that you, your skin may earn. And that was an interesting thing that we learned was at that wave lengths are different throughout the day when you’re outside and the wavelengths in the early and mid morning sun have a lot of the red and near infrared light in them and they actually prepare your skin to be better protected against the UV. So while you know going out in the sun, it’s still a good idea to use sun protection and everything using the Joovv device or another red light therapy device daily can actually help your skin be better protected when you are in those UV and UVB wavelengths.

Abby: That’s really great to hear. So for you guys, has your, has your product been used by, I guess, doctors who are treating people with eczema?

 

Melissa: I’m not sure. I’m sure it has. I’m not aware of any particular doctor at that at this point. I do know that we are starting to do clinical studies with our devices working with several different physicians and so I’m sure you know, that will come up that we will do that as well. Yeah,

 

Abby: That’s really great to hear.

 

Melissa: But there is some really cool clinical studies that, you know, we can, I can even send you that you could link up in your show notes, but there is some on pub med with other devices. Yes. So they show really, really cool results. Yeah.

 

Abby: Do you have any studies at the top of your mind that are just really interesting to share? I know I’m just putting you on the spot so you might not remember and that’s okay.

 

Melissa: No, that’s fine. Um, I know, I actually, um, we have a really cool article on photobiomodulation, which is the clinical term for red light therapy. And in eczema we have a really cool article on our website about that. And in that article, um, there is a study that was done with 81 participants over the course of a year and they were just, I believe I’d have to go back and check, but I believe they were just doing very minimal treatments per week. So nothing, you know, even like what we would recommend. And they noticed that the redness went down on their eczema spots if the inflammation went down. And just overall the itching was a lot, was greatly relieved. And so that’s one cool study that was like, wow, they weren’t even treating for very long. And it shows the power of light and how our bodies were made to take in way more light than, than we generally get.

 

Abby: That’s great. Is there any differences between your device and the ones that you mentioned you were going to in the tanning salons?

 

Melissa: In the tanning salon, I was using a converted tanning beds, so they, they were using fluorescent walls that were basically had like a rubber cover, red coating over them. And so those devices, it’s a lot harder for them to control what wavelengths are being used. And the intensity was a lot less than than what our devices are. So the treatment time for something like that is higher. But I, you know, I still had good results from that, so…

 

Abby: That’s good to hear. I know that a lot of people are just starting to look into this more, and I have heard of someone who has gotten better from it in the eczema community, but I’m just so curious to hear how it’ll go and more people with eczema use it because it doesn’t seem like, but I know a lot of people who have used it yet. So I’m just really curious to see how it will go and when more people are able to get ahold of this.

 

Melissa: Yeah. And it, and it’s like I can never guarantee, you know, people say, Hey, if I buy this for my, my eczema, is it going, you know, how long is it going to take? And I can never guarantee results to anyone because basically what the light is doing is it’s going in and it’s feeding your cells and helping your cells to function at a higher level. And then our bodies are really cool, because they know what to do when they’re given the proper nutrition and the proper everything they need for healing. And so your body might start working on something else that you know is another issue inside that you don’t even, aren’t even aware of. And it might say, Hey, yes, we need to heal the eczema, but there’s something, you know, even more important, we need to work on, we need to work on this kidney or something like that.

 

Melissa: And it’ll take that energy in. We’ll put it into healing that versus, you know, healing up the eczema right away. And then someone might find, Oh, I think my eczema was like a re… my body’s reaction to that and I didn’t eat. You know what I mean? So it’s like… I can’t ever guarantee like, will this help me? How long will it help me? All I can say is I know it’s been clinically proven to be extremely good for your cells and I believe in the therapy enough that, you know, even if I would have needed to do it for a year before seeing, you know, everything clear up, I would’ve kept going with it just because once I’ve done all that, the research into it, and I see how powerful it is, like I wouldn’t quit eating healthy, nutritious food every day. You know, I’m going to, I’m going to keep doing that because my body needs that to run. And since I’ve learned how important it is and that our body really needs that to run at an optimal level, it’s like I’m going to get that light in every day, even if I can’t see the results right away. So…

 

Abby: That makes sense. Have you heard of people using it for let’s say, let’s say either eczema actually stems from like a gut issue or leaky gut. So if people shine the light on their gut even though there’s no eczema there. Have you heard stories of people seeing results from that?

 

Melissa: Yeah, there there’s actually some really cool clinical studies on pub med that they’re now considering light therapy to be a form of antifungal, because by the studies they’ve done on, you know, the bad gut bacteria and the effect that the light has on them is incredible. And so I definitely recommend if someone reaches out and they’re like, you know, I have one of your smaller devices, I’m wanting to use it for eczema. We definitely recommend, yes, treat your gut too because like you said, there’s definitely a connection there for some people.

 

Abby: That’s so fascinating. I actually haven’t heard about that before or even in terms of phototherapy because they only treat the spot that has issues. So that’s just very fascinating to hear that you can treat different organs of your body that are weak and it can actually strengthen it.

 

Melissa: Yeah. And that’s something within like Western medicine, they look at one symptom and then that that part of your body. But in functional medicine, it’s all more about your body and your system as a whole. And so strengthening your immune system, strengthening yourself at a cellular level, it’s going to have an effect on your entire body.

 

Abby: I’ve also looked at, I’ve looked at a couple of the posts from, from your company and I saw some, clinical studies where it also mentioned that it helps with anti aging and people saw a decrease in the wrinkles as well.

 

Melissa: Yeah. And that’s, that’s all due to boosting that ATP production. Because when ATP production is, is boosted in the body in a more natural rate, it lowers your body’s oxidative stress. And so oxidative stress is what causes the body to age and to age prematurely. And so when you are restoring that healthy level of ATP production and the oxidative stress of your body is lowering, then your body can get to work at making and producing more collagen. And then an effect of that is you’re going to get, you know, your skin cells start turning over faster, shedding, you know, the old and you’ll see a reduction in wrinkles.

 

Abby: Wow, that’s really great. And one question I know I’m gonna get a lot is a, I don’t have a lot of parents with children, babies who listened to this podcast. So is it safe for babies to use the device and also for pregnant women?

 

Melissa: Yeah, that’s a good question. So there has been no studies done on pregnant women using the device. I did see that they are doing some preliminary studies on what red and near infrared light therapy would be like to be used on a woman in labor, for like pain relief, which I thought was really cool. But what we recommend is for people to look into the science behind it and just to check with their doctor if they’re pregnant, just to clear with their physician to make sure that’s okay. And we do the same thing for young children. I have children from age 20 all the way down to age six. They use the light on a regular basis, but we just always recommend, you know, check with your healthcare provider and see, you know, is that something they would recommend just to be on the safe side.

 

Abby: Yeah, that’s always a great tip. I think, uh, especially with, uh, any device or any product because we just don’t know. So I think it’s safest to check with your physician. Is there anything else you want to leave with our listeners? Maybe any last words of advice or tips for people who are interested in using it or just want to learn more about red light therapy in general?

 

Melissa: Yeah, we have a very great learn section on our website. We have articles on so many different things from, increased cognitive production, better sleep, a healthier thyroid, increased testosterone for men, balancing hormones for women. So if anyone is interested in learning more, I would definitely recommend checking out that learn section. Our articles are all linked to clinical studies. They are not like overly difficult to understand. We also have hundreds and hundreds of reviews on our website from real life users and their experience and what they saw. And so I always recommend for people to check those out and read through, you know, other people’s experiences. Our website is Joovv.com J O O V v.com and so, yeah, and also we’ve got like a very friendly customer service team and a live chat team, always ready to answer questions. And so, you know, we never mind people reaching out just saying, Hey, you know, point me in this direction. I want to learn more about this. So we love, we love to educate people.

 

Abby: Thank you for that information. And I wanted to, I wanted to ask is it better to use the Joovv at night or in the morning?

 

Melissa: You know that, that’s a really great question too. And the cool thing about light therapy, as I mentioned, our body kind of knows what to do with that energy. And so when you use the light in the morning, it actually helps to stimulate your energy, get you going for the day. And when used at night, people actually will tell us that they feel like it really puts them in a very calm state ready for bed. And so I usually tell people, you know, I would test using it in the morning using at night and see what feels best for your body. What do you enjoy? We have a lot of users that choose to treat in the morning and evening just because they find it so relaxing.

 

Abby: And what happens if someone decides to use it for say 20 to 30 minutes a day instead of 10 minutes a day? Are there any negative side effects to it or will it just help?

 

Melissa: after about 15 to 20 minutes of use, while it won’t hurt you, you’re not gonna really gain any extra benefits because your cells have any time to process the light.

 

Abby: That’s very interesting actually. I didn’t realize that. The other thing I want to point out for the listeners is that eczema is so tied to so many things. It can be tied to, you know, inflammation, blood sugar issues, thyroid. And it’s just so neat that you even mentioned that it can help with thyroid. So I’m just, I’m just interested in that because I didn’t realize that it can help so many organs of the body.

 

Melissa: Yeah. And basically why it does is because over our entire body, we have cells and all those cells have mitochondria. And so if an anywhere on your body, you know, those cells are struggling to create that ATP and the light comes in and restores the healthy Siler function, you’re going to see a very big health benefit for that area. So that’s why we recommend to people as much as you can treat full body, because you don’t even know, like your thyroid may be sluggish. And while it’s not something that you’ve been to the doctor for, you don’t even know the increased energy or better hormone production you could be having. And that’s where people will tell us, I didn’t even know I could sleep this good. You know, I, it just was normal for me. And so yeah, it’s really cool. The benefits. People will say, Hey, I started using this because I wanted the anti-aging benefits, but now I notice I’m sleeping better. I have way higher energy and I find like when I need to be concentrating at work, I can even concentrate better. And it’s like they’re amazed and it’s like, no, that’s just what light can do for the body. And when you support all those cells.

 

Melissa: You know there is some interesting research and the preliminary research shows that it would be very good for cancer because like I said, the body knows what to do to restore health, when it’s given the right ingredients to do that. But we always recommend check the research that’s out there, but also check with your doctor just because you know everybody’s body is so different. But there is some really cool studies out there on people, especially children that experienced the oral mucositis sores in their mouth that comes as a side effect of chemotherapy and they actually use a little red light wand and that the children will put in their mouth to treat those sores and they experience a lot of pain help from that. And also there’s some cool studies on women that have had breast cancer and how just using the light it helps bring their pain and inflammation way down when going through treatments. So that preliminary studies out there pretty cool.

 

Abby: That’s very cool. I haven’t seen the wand on your site. I’m guessing you guys don’t have the one. Right?

 

Melissa: no, we don’t have a wand like that at this point. I think that’s it. It’s been used in medical settings and I’m not sure what you know, device they’ve used, but yeah, I know that there’s also some face masks that they’ve used. Basically just any way they can shine the light on the mouth. Yeah. So technically our device could also work because you can shine it, you know, on your, on your face.

 

Abby: Actually now that you mention it, I remember people using it at facials. There’s like the facial masks and where it’s just the red light therapy and yours I’m guessing would have the same effective it’s they’re shiny on the face.

 

Melissa: Yeah, that’s correct.

 

Abby: Ah, that’s very fascinating. I have learned a lot from our talk today and I’ve just found everything you mentioned to be, you know, very fascinating just because I haven’t really come across many devices that have been able to help so many parts of the body. And I just find it to be very unique.

 

Melissa: Yeah. And, and it really is a Testament to the power of light. And like I said, how our bodies were made to run with light and, and, and people just aren’t able to get it in their system as much as they were used to. So this is a great option to restore that healthy balance of light to the body.

 

Abby: That’s great. And before we go, Melissa, it’s a wonderful that you created this product because it helped with your, your skin and your sons in as well. So what’s your background because I know that you have so much knowledge about, you know, help and you know, healthy living from the things that you’ve mentioned. So did you always have a background in health or,

 

Melissa: honestly, no. I have just been a stay at home mom with my kids and so, up until about 2014 I didn’t know a lot about this stuff, but I just started doing a lot of research because of my own health challenges I was facing and just wanted to be healthy and to know all the healthy things that I could do for my family as well. And I just found it so fascinating that I just kept researching and researching and digging into the science and that’s why I’m self-educated along the way. But I’m so thankful for everything I’ve learned.

 

Abby: That’s great. One other, one last question I will probably be asked a lot is, do you ship around the world? Because I know we have a lot of listeners, the world and Asia and Europe and other parts of the country, other parts of the world.

 

Melissa: Yes, we do ship worldwide.

 

Abby: That’s great. All right, so thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate it. And if people want to continue to follow, do you have on social media as well? is it Joovvsocial on Instagram and Facebook?

 

Melissa: Yep, that is correct. Yep.

 

Abby: That is great. Thank you so much, Melissa, for being on the show today.